Find Mark Wahlberg on Facebook

MarkWahlberg.com Forum Index MarkWahlberg.com
The Official Web Site
 
 FAQFAQ   MemberlistMemberlist 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
Click here to visit the Mark Wahlberg Youth Foundation
And another terrific PS review!
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    MarkWahlberg.com Forum Index -> Perfect Storm
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Cathy Y



Joined: 28 Apr 2000
Posts: 120
Location: Middletown, NJ 07748

PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2000 12:02 am    Post subject: And another terrific PS review! Reply with quote

http://www.roughcut.com/today/hot.button/20000508_mon.html

Don't forget to read the second page when you get to the bottom 'cuz some of the more interesting stuff is actually on the 2nd pg. They say that in many ways Mark's character (Bobby Shatford) is actually more central to the movie than the one played by George Clooney and that his character and relationships w/other people (like his girlfriend played by Diane Lane, and his mother) are better developed.

Sounds great...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
KP



Joined: 01 May 2000
Posts: 243
Location: Kassel, Germany

PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2000 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...yes, it does!!!
Can't wait to see that film! Is there any clue that it could be rated in anyway? I hope not!!!
Thanx for the link!

---Pia---
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Annie M



Joined: 08 Jan 2000
Posts: 1683
Location: Muskogee, OK, USA

PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2000 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know, but I couldn't resist. Here is only one small bit of this article:

"One of the surprises of the film is that Mark Wahlberg is in many ways the central character, not George Clooney. It is Wahlberg who is hooked up with the still-stunning Diane Lane, not Clooney. It is Wahlberg who has a mother, played by Janet Wright."

He did go on to make one small comment about Mark that I disagreed with, however. Still, a well-written piece, woth your time.








------------------
Annie M
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Cathy Y



Joined: 28 Apr 2000
Posts: 120
Location: Middletown, NJ 07748

PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2000 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The comment you disagreed with, was that the one where he said that this is the first role in which MW gets to play a real adult? Well... I'm not sure that's so wrong... wouldn't you say that most of his characters up to now have been either teenage boys or boyish young men, like in "Three Kings" or "The Corruptor"? It's certainly not a disparaging comment toward Mark. (Actually I looked up this same critic's assessment of "Three Kings" and he was full of praise for Mark's performance.)

By the way, I noticed that the writer didn't say anything about the quality of Mark's performance in "TPS," only about the role itself... so I e-mailed him (there's a link at the bottom of the page where you can send him an e-mail) and asked him about it, and actually got an answer on the same day! He said it was an excellent performance and definitely another big step forward in Mark's acting career.

Actually, the one comment in this piece that kinda rubbed me the wrong way had nothing to do w/Mark -- it was the reference to the "still-stunning Diane Lane." STILL-STUNNING? I can see how you could say that about a 50-year-old, but Lane is 32, for heaven's sake! Are we supposed to be over the hill at 30? I am by no means some kind of rabid feminist, but I thought this was a pretty sexist remark.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
BRASSI



Joined: 02 May 2000
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2000 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are there two Diane Lanes? I'm confused.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Annie M



Joined: 08 Jan 2000
Posts: 1683
Location: Muskogee, OK, USA

PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2000 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cathy,
I'm still disagreeing; sorry! Troy was a soldier who had been to war and a father; Danny was an Internal Affairs cop who successfully did his job, even though his partner was killed in the process. Those are adult roles, as far as I'm concerned. The fact that the characters are not over 30 just adds to their fulfillment of their roles, in my opinion. I did not see them as "boys". Just because they are not 40, does not mean they are not adults. I see the critic's comment as a sexist remark, too.

I did think the remark about Lane was odd, as she looks like a pretty, young adult woman to me. I am not familiar with any of her earlier work, to compare, but he could have left out "still" I suppose. Perhaps though, he did not mean it as an age thing, but as a comment on her prevailing good looks. Guess you'd have to ask him to find that out.

------------------
Annie M


[This message has been edited by Annie M (edited 01 June 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Annie M (edited 01 June 2000).]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Cathy Y



Joined: 28 Apr 2000
Posts: 120
Location: Middletown, NJ 07748

PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2000 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We-e-ll... having been to war doesn't necessarily make you a full adult, especially an "easy" war like the Gulf War. Remember the early scenes in "Three Kings" where the soldiers are celebrating victory? don't they all look like a bunch of high school kids? If you look at the reviews, you will see that a lot of them referred to Troy as "boyish" (with no disrespect meant -- although I remember someone saying that he looked a bit too young to be a sergeant, at least for a reservist). Actually, one thing I realized as I watched TK for the third time is that toward the end of the film, Troy looks much more mature than he does at the beginning, having been changed by his tragic experiences. The fact that Mark manages to convey this once again attests to his talent as an actor.

As for Danny ... well, you remember what Chow Yun-Fat's character, Nick, says about him after he's brought in on the team -- "he's worse than white, he's green." By the way, one thing that I thought was wrong with the movie was that Danny goes so quickly from a nervous rookie who is paralyzed during gun battle (when they raid the brothel) into a full-fledged action hero who's just as proficient with a gun as the veteran Nick. Suddenly he even loses the nerdy-looking glasses, what's with that? Did he go out and get contacts? Then there should have been some mention of that. None of this is a reflection on Mark -- obviously it was the director's and/or the screenwriter's fault.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
jordanelmena



Joined: 05 Nov 1999
Posts: 160
Location: new jersey

PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2000 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just an observation: In "The Corruptor", at the beginning he was pretending to be "green" because he had to hide the fact that he was Internal Affairs. If you notice when he was alone and found all of those girls, he wasn't paralyzed with fear. His father was an officer, and they don't make just anyone Internal Affairs. I think Mark's characters are young in age, but when it's time to get down to business, they do. He's not even IN his 30s yet, so of course he's boyish. I don't think a boy (Troy Barlow) would be married with a child, doing a job he hates so he can support them. The first thing he did in "Three Kings" after being captured was call his wife, let her know he was ok, and make sure the proper people received their coordinates. As Danny Wallace, he put himself on the line to bail a gambling, alcoholic father that was never there for him out. I think people confuse being young in age with being immature.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Drea



Joined: 21 May 2000
Posts: 32
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2000 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i tend to agree with Cathy Y.
it's absolutely nothing against mark, but i think at least in the case of TK he can't really be classified as an "adult"
and it has nothing to do with how old he is or how old his characters are
it's all about that even though he's a man technically, he still has the essence of a youngster
true he has herioc moments and i think he matures into a man at the end, but the character of Troy i think was meant to be childish, as were the characters of all the privates.
the role in TPS is different, more mature, because, from what i understand, it's more about him taking responsibilities, and accepting consequences.
in TK he didn't really become an adult until he started talking with his torturer.
that's the moment when his niave, impulses realize that the war is about a lot more than kicking Sadam's ***.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Cathy Y



Joined: 28 Apr 2000
Posts: 120
Location: Middletown, NJ 07748

PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2000 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very well put, Drea. Just wanted to point out that if everyone who had kids was automatically a mature adult, the world would be a much better place! (I just thought of one woman I know who has 3 kids, a husband and a good job... and if you didn't know it and spoke to her for 10 minutes, you'd think she was a high school sophomore.)

I think that at the beginning, Troy, despite his family status, is kind of a happy-go-lucky guy who, to some extent, treats what's happening around him as a game. Drea is also right that Conrad and (maybe to a lesser degree) Chief Elgin are portrayed much the same way. Troy's use of the cell phone does demonstrate resourcefulness, but that's not necessarily the same thing as maturity. (Remember that he initially calls the telephone operator and asks for a number for "Desert Storm" ... that's pretty naive, isn't it?) Again, it is most certainly not a putdown of Mark. On the contrary, as I said, I think he did a brilliant job of conveying Troy's growth from an impulsive youngster to a man.

As for Danny in "The Corruptor" -- the idea that he would pretend to "freeze" in the gun battle in order to pass himself off as a "green" rookie and conceal the fact that he was with Internal Affairs doesn't strike me as very plausible. It would be a pretty dangerous way to pretend... He could have easily been killed, or he could have gotten another cop (maybe Chen) killed. Besides, if his initial lack of competence is only a smokescreen, why does he drop it so quickly and turn into an action hero? Wouldn't this only make the other cops more suspicious?

I don't want to start an argument, but I think some people on this board have a hard time with any criticism of any of Mark's movies. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, of course ... and I have to say that "The Corruptor" just didn't work for me, partly for the reasons I mentioned above. I think it had good potential and some very good moments, including some excellent acting by Mark, and it certainly deserves credit for trying to add some depth to the "cop-buddy-movie" genre, but unfortunately there are reasons it was not a success, either at the box office or with critics. It had a pretty muddled script with underdeveloped characters and lack of consistency. For instance, Danny is supposed to be this idealistic young cop who's so concerned about doing the right thing, and yet he doesn't seem to have much of a problem with having sex with prostitutes supplied for free by a gang boss. Yes, I understand that a guy can give in to temptation, but we don't even get a sense that there's any kind of moral struggle going on, or that he's bothered by this. Doesn't make sense.


[This message has been edited by Cathy Y (edited 02 June 2000).]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Annie M



Joined: 08 Jan 2000
Posts: 1683
Location: Muskogee, OK, USA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2000 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I fully agree with Jordanelmena (hope I got that right).
I strongly disagree with Drea and Cathy. Your idea of an "adult" sounds pretty warped to me, and I am glad I don't have to be around you in person. Danny and Troy were neither naive nor childish, and it makes me angry that you think so, but everyone has their own opinion.

------------------
Annie M
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
jordanelmena



Joined: 05 Nov 1999
Posts: 160
Location: new jersey

PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2000 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My aunt was a cop who was killed in the line of duty not only because she was taken hostage, but because her partner froze. So I know. I have many friends who are police officers. My grandfather was an FBI agent, and my uncle IS one. Police officers answer to Internal Affairs. You do not start out there. His father was a cop, also. You learn a lot that way. How do you explain that he took on two men in that basement alone? As far as having sex with prostitutes, hence the name "Corruptor". He's still a man. He didn't pay for the sex, it was a gift. Not that it was right, but he got caught up. I Three Kings, I was not saying that being married and having a child were criteria for being a man. Handling your business is. He did not all of a sudden become a man while talking to his captor. He only saw that while he was there doing his job there was someone that easily could have been him. Like he imagined, his wife and daughter could have been killed. His interest in the gold was to pay for his daughter's education and to otherwise take care of his family. That sounds like a man to me. Men take care of their households. They are supportive, caring and nurturing. I think Conrad's character was the immature one. Around the time that they found the map, Troy had to teach him how to properly speak to the people. I don't think that if he were immature he would have dropped the gold to save those two kids. And lest you say that anyone would have, there are people in this world that kill children with absolutley no thought or feeling. His main objective was always to get back to his wife and child. I was not saying anything derogatory about Mark. I happen to admire him a great deal. I don't normally post things on here, and I don't think I will any more. I apologize if I upset anyone. I just happen to think Mark is one of the best actors I've ever seen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Annie M



Joined: 08 Jan 2000
Posts: 1683
Location: Muskogee, OK, USA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2000 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again, I absolutely AGREE with everything Jordanelmena has posted!! She took the words right out of my mouth!
It is hard for me to be "objective" about Mark when negatives are thrown at him, and especially if I feel they are undeserved. So I'm glad someone else could speak my mind for me on this one!

BTW, the title "The Corruptor" had nothing to do with the sex acts. We have no way of knowing what Danny's sex life was like before we meet him. The word Corruptor was relating to Henry Lee, who set Danny up and trapped him into doing what he wanted, When Lee sat there and told Danny in so many words that he had no choice but to capitulate, and you could see Danny thinking it over...that was the True Corruption. All the rest was just window-dressing and foreplay. And it also points to the fact that Nicholas Chen had to work on the wrong side of the law to get anything done. The sex was beside the point!
This story has a lot of layers, and was not all cut-and-dried.

------------------
Annie M
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Cathy Y



Joined: 28 Apr 2000
Posts: 120
Location: Middletown, NJ 07748

PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2000 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To Jordanelema, that's terrible about your aunt, but it really underscores my point, doesn't it? If a cop freezes in a shootout, it can get him (or her), or his/her partner, killed. So an experienced cop trying to pose as "green" would NEVER freeze during a shootout ON PURPOSE!!! Also, I think you missed my point about the sex with the prostitutes. Yes, it's entirely possible that he would be tempted by the free sex. (Though, actually, cops have to deal with such temptations all the time... I know something about cops too, I dated a guy for several years whose brother is a cop, and a good friend of mine teaches at a criminal justice college in New York where most of the students are police trainees. Anyway I've been told that it's very common for cops to get sexual offers, either when they're about to arrest a woman, or when they're about to bust a guy and he will offer sex with his girlfriend or wife if only the cops will leave him alone. And most of the time they manage to resist.) The real point, as I said before, is that when he has sex with those women, there's no sense of any moral struggle going on, or of any remorse. By contrast, when he accepts money from whats-is-name, the gang boss, in order to bail out his dad, it's clear that he hates having to be in that situation.

And yes, of course rookies don't get to work Internal Affairs. Which may be why a number of reviews of "The Corruptor" mentioned that he seemed too young for the part. Honestly, I don't know why but he looked younger in this movie than he did in "Fear," which was shot 3 years earlier!

Now, about Troy. Yes, of course he's much more mature and much smarter than Conrad! But remember that when he tells Conrad not to use anti-Arab slurs that are based on anti-black slurs, like "dune coon," he also advises him that to substitute other slurs like "camel jockey" and "towelhead" which don't have anti-black overtones. How mature is that? Or when the cow explodes and he starts singing "get around, I get around" ... do you think somebody who doesn't have a boyish streak in him would react that way? Of course it doesn't make him completely childish, but he's not a completely mature person either. It also seems pretty clear to me that in the first half of the film Troy is pretty confused morally, even though his impulses are basically decent. At the very beginning of the movie he clearly feels bad about having shot the Iraqi soldier who, as it turns out, was trying to surrender. But just a few hours later he's partying with the guys and having a great time (and try telling me that in the celebration scenes, he and the other guys don't look and act like high school kids!). Also, have you forgotten that when Saddam's soldiers shoot a woman in the head in front of her little child, Troy is the only one who objects to helping the villagers, and in fact he's pretty p***ed off at Archie? And yes, it's true that later on, when he sees the two little kids running toward the mines, he risks his life and drops the bag of gold to save them -- because, on impulse, his basic decency takes over. In my view, it's only toward the end of the film that he becomes a mature person in the sense of being able to consciously make moral decisions.

You know, I may be wrong about all this... though obviously I'm not the only person to think this way... but what I don't get is why my and Drea's opinion would make Annie "angry." For the 100th time, we are NOT criticizing Mark! I completely agree that he is one of the finest actors working today, and it does make me angry that he still doesn't receive the recognition he deserves. (Hopefully, "The Perfect Storm" and "The Yards" will change that.) But how can it possibly be insulting to take the view that a character Mark plays is not, at least in the beginning of the film, a very mature individual? It should also be possible to appreciate Mark's talent and not like a movie he was in. Even the greatest actor is going to be in some not-so-good movies, particularly today when the Hollywood machine churns out so many banal, cliche-ridden, and sometimes downright awful scripts. (I love Dustin Hoffman, but I thought "Sphere" was pretty dumb.) I think some of the movies Mark has been in are not really worthy of his talent. That's hardly an insult. I don't want to pick fight with anyone but I think we should be able to express our opinions without being attacked!

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Drea



Joined: 21 May 2000
Posts: 32
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2000 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whoo! Alright, i think we all need to calm down a little bit here. You can just about feel the intensity shooting off the screen. Alright. . . with that said. . . i'd just like to clarify my opinion, I have no opinion on Corruptor because i didn't watch it closely enough to feel the comfort in giving a detail analizise of Mark's character.
However, i own TK and have watched it so many times that it almost offends me that my opinions on a movie that i love can't be considered or at least dealt with in a reasonable manner. I love that movie and love Mark in it. I'm not going to review my opinions on the character or fight any of the very well made, but debatable, arguments that Annie and jordanelmena have presented.
I hope that we can all just look at what the others have said and at least try to recognize the others opinions. Not necessarily agree, just to see where they're coming from.

[This message has been edited by Drea (edited 02 June 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Drea (edited 02 June 2000).]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    MarkWahlberg.com Forum Index -> Perfect Storm All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group